This is real work. This is hard work. This will take time.
The means we use will determine what ends we achieve. If we desire peaceful and prosperous ends, then we must only pursue peaceful means. Violent means cannot achieve peaceful ends. This is true without exception. Peace exists in the absence of violence, not because of it and certainly not in its presence. This is in fact the myth of the state, that violence can create peace and order. It cannot and we must reject this myth by being peaceful ourselves.
Below are a few of my favorite quotes regarding this topic. These are the things I think about every day when I wake up and ask myself "how am I going to live today?" You may or may not choose to take them to heart, but they are the driving force behind every conscious action I take.
The greatest danger to the State is independent intellectual criticism.
-Murray Rothbard
Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved.
-Seraphim of Sarov
Fire in the head, peace in the heart.
-Samael
I will also ask our readers to take the time to watch Leonard Read's excellent presentation: "How to Advance Liberty"
So, you want to focus on the Founding Fathers but not the actions that were undertaken by them??? Teddy bears, flowers and candy only went so far before the rubber met the road. If you believe for one minute that all the pablum spouted by Glenn Beck and others is going to win our liberty back, please step out into reality.
ReplyDeleteJailed National Guardsmen, Federal raids on Mormon canning facilities, no warrant needed arrests and the hits go on and on!!! Having peace in my heart while facing this tyranny brought to our shores ain't happening!!!
The time to cut bait or fish has passed. What are you prepared to do???? We have the right and the duty to throw off this tyranny.
Doug
Newark, Ohio
David,
ReplyDeleteWhile I didn't read many of the "disturbingly violent" comments, I would point out that the actions of the Sons of Liberty, as well as the Army pictured above on this page, were likewise "disturbingly violent".
Breaking into a home full of children to kidnap (not arrest) someone at gunpoint is likewise disturbingly violent, illegal, extra-constitutional, and an act of tyranny. It doesn't matter what clothes the perpetrators wear.
I appreciate Mr. Rothbard's quote, but consider how far we have fallen since that statement was made.
Every non-violent movement in history that has forced change in government has been backed by the threat of violence. Yes, even Ghandi and MLK, if you study the history enough.
The means we use will determine what ends we achieve. If we desire peaceful and prosperous ends, then we must only pursue peaceful means. Violent means cannot achieve peaceful ends. This is true without exception. Peace exists in the absence of violence, not because of it and certainly not in its presence. This is in fact the myth of the state, that violence can create peace and order. It cannot and we must reject this myth by being peaceful ourselves.
So, having said that, do you then condemn the violence that led to the 13 colonies' independence? You cannot glorify the original patriots and condemn political violence.
That is Glen Beck-ish hypocrisy at its worst, David. Be careful when you walk down the road of advocating for liberty. Liberty means less government, and governments never voluntarily surrender power. This is fact.
While you don't have to glorify violence, or call for it, don't completely condemn it as a tool for effective change. Often, it is the only solution.
AP
“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.”
ReplyDeleteRobert Anson Heinlein, from "Starship Troopers"
There are a lot of things to consider. I've heard folks telling other folks to take up arms for 20 years. I went to jail many many times back when I was younger standing for my "Rights", and no I wasn't pushing dope. I stood up to the government, said I wouldn't have my Right to travel, speak freely, carry a firearm, and on and on be violated. I was cheered on by men much older than I who "had my back", but when I got thrown in the slammer over and over and as the months went by as I sat in jail, I realized all those cheerleaders were no where to be found. The same guys I listened to who said,"It's time to take up arms again"!
ReplyDeleteWhatever.
Most of the "time for another revolution" guys use that as a copout. There is no personal cost in it, because most think, and hope, it will never actually happen.
How can we say we will take up arms when we can't even stop giving our consent to this monster in the simplest of ways? How many of you who are ready to "take up arms" keep going to the voting booth giving legitimacy and consent to the very system you say you will fight? How many are ready to kill their neighbors, yet won't take the time to get to know them? And AP, it is disturbing to have someone suggest that we should threaten gov. officials children. Really? Who in their right mind would defend that?
I would like to ask, when we have a second revolution, what do you folks propose to replace it with? Who would be in charge then? What government would you propose? Liberty does not mean less government, there is no such thing, it is a fallacy. True Liberty is the absence of government. David showed in a post I am going to link to that there is no doubt, that after the revolution taxes were much much higher and freedoms were less immediately following the revolution. Power just changed hands. That's it. Look at how fast they passed the 11th amendment. People don't even know what that did to us, or why it came about, and the smoke hadn't even cleared from the revolution. Alien and sedition act anyone?
Saying David is anything like Glenn Beck is laughable. David can hold his own with ANYONE on the precepts,rationale and cause for Liberty. he has studied and understands the revolution more than most folks I know.
Glenn Beck doesn't have a clue.
I seem to remember the Soviet Union. Past tense. Not a shot fired.
Does that mean I am not aware of what's going on? Nope. Is my head in the sand? Nope. Do I think Liberty is not worth defending? Nope. I have guns. Lots. And I know how to use them quite well. But I see the current situation that we have as unsustainable. The system is broke. They can't finance themselves forever by printing money. I am trying to concern myself with what will rise up out of the crash. That's why I preach to folks about Liberty, so hopefully they won't want to make the same mistake again by wanting to set up another government.
I study the founding Fathers writings and theory's on Liberty, and where they came to get those thoughts, and the men they read and got theory from. Right now, if we have a "revolution" it would basically be a rewrite of the french revolution. People don't even know what Liberty and freedom mean. They don't understand the jury, they don't understand property Rights, all they know is they have a second amendment.
David is out of town with no internet, so I told him I would put this link of a previous blog here.http://patriotslament.blogspot.com/2011/11/myth-of-war-and-fighting-for-freedom.html
My question is this. What will you replace it with?
Thanks for posting that for me Josh. Just got 'net back. Relating to the link you posted, there is one question. "What war has made men more free?"
ReplyDeleteI would expect a certain answer, which leads to the second question...
What was the result of the Revolutionary War? I would ask that they read the following before replying:
http://lewrockwell.com/north/north1002.html
Even the Bible tells us that there is a time to fight. Read Ecclesiastes. I agree that we use (exhaust) all peaceful means, but ultimately, we may have to fight, or die as slaves.
ReplyDeleteJoshua,
ReplyDeleteWonderful post.
I don't know where to post this on the blog, but someone needs to talk about why voting is never an effective means of controlling the government (I write this as I'm listening to poor Matt Want on the archives):
ReplyDeletehttp://mises.org/daily/5036/How-to-Win-an-Election
Haha, that was classic. We have a few post about that, I will bring them back to the top.
ReplyDeleteThanks Joshua. I started at the beginning of the audio archives a few days ago and am now up to November. It is interesting to see how fast the transition can be once the light starts to dawn and the courage to follow it comes.
ReplyDeleteI'm in south central, moved here from Texas a couple years ago and love it. Haven't found a similarly inclined group here, yet. Grateful to have found this.
Very nice, glad to have you here! Give us a call on the show sometime. I am sure there are like minded folks around. Takes time.
ReplyDeleteYou are the similarly inclined group :-) Start by finding one like minded person, then build out from there.
ReplyDeleteThe Book discussion group we have started with just two or three of us, and stayed that way for about a year. Then it started to grow, one by one. We now have 10-15 people at our meetings and probably 25 people involved total. It is starting to have a tangible impact in the community too.
Patience and one on one discourse are the key ingredients to meaningful philosophical change in my opinion.